INNIT Ban Day 4 (let's be fair to them!)

"Whoever thinks the pen is mightier than the sword, has never encountered a keyboard. With internet access of course."
(modified from Wiki)

I am still gagged banned from publicising my entry on INNIT site. To be fair to them, they have every right to do whatever they please on their site. It is almost similar to someone asking you to step up of their car if you keep making annoying noises in it. Fair. It is their car afterall and I have no problem with that ban order.

But thankfully, there are other nicer, bigger cars around town to hitch a ride in!

:)

The car models I am referring to are PetalingStreet, Ping.sg, StumbleUpon etc...

_______________________________________

I said I won't be writing anymore on NN/Payout for now. But in order to be fair to NN, I had to include this entry. Better be fair than keeping a self-gag promise!

They did try to explain their bands (on 29 Nov 2007, see below), but they cannot reveal the precise mechanism/formula used for their allocation. We just know bands are chunks of average daily visits (I suppose it's Uniques rather than Impressions as in how many times a site is visited regardless whether it is from the same IP terminal, but need more clarification on this also). So it is not impossible to have two pay bands in a week if your blog had 2 different ads. What we won't know is how much of the actual ad revenue goes to operation cost and other misc. cost, and we do not know the actual TOTAL impressions for that week. But they can choose not to reveal them. Maybe one day they will - just like the MAS v AirAsia pricewar.


FROM NN support site:
What are bands? How are they allocated?

Tags: band

Added: 29 Nov 2007

Bands are what we use to allocate earnings. They are based on your average daily visits in a given week.

If you have an average of 51-100 visits for example, you could be in band X, or if you had 101-150 visits a week you could be in band Y. Being in a higher band gives you more earnings if you are assigned to a campaign for that week.

The allocation of bands are confidential and subject to change from time to time as we monitor the overall traffic.

The Nuffnang Email, The Innit Ban and That Picture

Read the content and news here.

Is Nuffnang working for us?

Some people accuse me of being anti-Nuffnang when I posted the Is Nuffnang ripping us off? series (Part 1, Part 2, Part 3). One girl even lamented I know zilch about business when I demanded more transparency and questioned their 70:30 payout ratio (btw, this 70:30 business is a guess because I don't know what goes on in their Accounts dept).

Their explanation (see Nuffnang's FAQ - should really be FAFI, frequently asked frequently ignored!) of what banding means is as good as not telling us in the first place. Nobody knows what banding means and how exactly the final ads payment is being calculated. You could post two ads on the same blog, and get two completely different pay bands - like 1 and 7. Whatever 1 and 7 mean!

I carried out the most unscientific poll (using Nuffnang's latest widget) to help me overcome my stress ulcer and answer the following question: Would you like to know Nuffnang ads pay/fee structure and distribution?

At the time of writing, 79 responded to the poll (FYI, I only answered once, no point cheating).

60% want to know the exact payout structure and distribution. The 40% essentially don't give a hoot.

60% want to know more. That's 2/3 according to my rusty maths, enough to form a strong majority according to Malaysian parliamentary standards.

I hope after numerous attempts to get them to respond, Nuffnang will eventually offer a better explanation as to what banding means. My fingers remain crossed.

Now why do I need to know?

ONE. I believe Nuffnang runs an honest business. For me, whatever goes on in their shareholding company (Nuffnang Sdn Bhd?) has no ethical bearing on Nuffnang going concerns. But if bloggers are persuaded by Nuffnang's cause, they should at least get some idea as to how much their blog traffic (and time) is worth to Nuffnang and how the ads revenues are finally shared out.

TWO. Blogs have commercial value, even the crappiest stuff you regret visiting. I feel that blogosphere as a whole is an under-valued advertising avenue. Our readership and reach are many times more than print and broadcast media, and yet we charge and get peanuts for running ads. Having blog ads agency like Nuffnang and Advertlets, we are effectively allowing a third party to value the community commercial value. And by third party, I meant a committee of newcomers eager to fight and scrap for a living. A high level of transparency can and will drive up our market value. So everyone wins - better reach, better value.

THREE. I am a busy-body but I also secretly (not a secret now!) want Nuffnang to evolve into an online ad powerhouse - and not another corporate thief. Tim and Ming will get bloggers support (SSL included) as long as they keep Nuffnang HONEST and FUN!

We scratch your back, can you scrub ours now?

Who is the ad commissioner?

Mother of all Ad Horror!

I was about to praise Nuffnang for giving us such colourful, tasteful and well-designed ads until this one comes along...

Looks like a last-minute jobbie. Aaaargh!!

Gratefully yours, SSL.

Suddenly blogging becomes cool...

IF Dr M joins Nuffnang, I reckon he would be the oldest Nuffnanger. But first, he has to put up with their "because without Nuffnang, that space on your sidebar is NOTHING" snobbery and their type of banding (what is that?)/pay-out tranparency**- not a lot to ask, right?

Dr M started his blog on 1 May... read his entry here - on chedet.com (why not .com.my, Malaysia tak boleh isit?). He chose blogspot! I wonder if Marina M was his blog advisor.

previously... (SSL unpublished entry 11 April 2006)

The list will grow.

Mohd Khir Toyo, the former Chief Minister of Selangor, took up blogging and more recently, Malacca Chief Minister Mohd Ali Rustam has also jumped on the "cyber bandwagon". Is former cabinet minister Lim Keng Yaik next to start a blog site?

Honestly, you guys are a few years late, but it's better late than never. Are you also on MySpace, Facebook and Innit register list?

Sign up, sign up.


**some nuffnangers, me included, got spammed by Advertlets asking us to switch sides. I have this to say: you are not the lesser of the two evils, but if you show us your pay-out structure and payment transparency, I might consider. BTW, I am only a small fish blogger, at best I'll probably add 3000+ traffic to your ads WEEKLY. I can be transparent, can you?

Is Nuffnang ripping us off? (The Truth Part 2)

WishBoNe: I don't know about the 30/70 for Nuffnang. But I've been using a few methods to monetise my blogs and the only one I know that is using 30/70 is Linkworth. I get paid 70% for whatever I have been given per task.

SSL: I am guessing that NN's 30/70 is just a ballpark figure (read the original article here: Nuffnang take at least 30% of those ad revenues), and that this is not set in stone. The exact payment distribution could well be done based on their kind discretion or based on some arbitrary numbers. If NN tells us what band means and what amount each band corresponds to (and how they assign those figures), instead of some vague desription of the volume of traffic our blogs are getting, I will immediately revise some views. I understand that revealing too much might give its rival company a competitive edge (one friend pointed out that rival ad agency might start undercutting), at least offer us a better explanation and description of the payment structure instead of the present non-descriptive one (as found on NN's FAQ).

Leslie (no email/url included): if you look around all ad networks commission of ad networks finding ads for you goes from 30%-50%. if nuffnang is really taking 30% then it is quite generous. personally i think 30% is considered really low. if nuffnang brings in $1,000,000 a year, 30% is $300,000 for nuffnang. $300,000 to pay for their staff costs, server costs, office rent, phone bill etc for a year i'm surprised they make any money at all.

then again it is a business choice if you feel you earn more elsewhere then go ahead and switch

SSL: I like this particular comment. Of course, I am free to switch. But you miss my point. I DO NOT WANT TO SWITCH, I am sticking with NN! I am writing as a bona fide user to a company that I admire (yes - shock, horror, horror - I admire them). Advertising is a tough industry and with the current economic slowdown I reckon it will be even more challenging (advertising will be one of the first expenses to go in any typical cost-cutting exercise). It is a brave decision for two young entrepreneurs to enter this industry, I don't have the nuts to even consider it! I am supporting them as a user, as a matter of fact, I have urged some friends to sign up.

The title I chose "is NN ripping us off?" merely describes an internal dialogue. No malice was ever intended. It provokes me to find out more, and I did. Hopefully, it will lead NN to provide better explanation because the majority of NN bloggers DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT BAND MEANS, AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT GOES ON BEHIND THE PAY-OUT SCENE.

Some businesses in the local scene enter a tough market for a different purpose altogether; money laundering and a shell for tax evasion to name a few (I'm not suggesting NN are doing those activities). So it does not hurt to give clearer and better explanation - right?

SloppyChic: well, those who get the bigger pie of share are those who are popular, and the rest of us are just peanuts who complete the whole community...

SSL: Monetizing blog encourages regular blog updates, and blogging with more interesting and engaging materials. Much of the recent blog culture/content can be attributed to the money culture in blogging. Cash and money will shape the future of our blogosphere landscape, and I believe more quality stuff will emerge from it. That's capitalism.

Every popular blogger began life as a peanut in the community. I am also a peanut, just older.


~YM~: 30% is really low, cos if u compared to those 'charity' organization, they take up to 90% and give the 10% to charity. And mind you, that 10% is after all expenses had been deducted. -.-"

Seriously, what you are thinking of is sometimes like the boss and worker thinking. The worker always think "I work so hard for the boss, how come I got so little pay? I earn millions for the boss, and this meagre pay of my salary is too little la"

If you have a blogger union, even the rep may not know how to get ads. If that rep had learnt it, he'll be dissatisfied and he may tried to get a higher share for himself from the ads as well.

SSL: You are right about unions, there will be little incentive to fetch delicious deals as the margins are fixed and usually low. Yep, they may eventually leave once they learn the business.

No, I don't think as a worker. I just want more information as I am also part of the enterprise (as a user)!

Is Nuffnang ripping us off? (The Truth Part 1)

I am not too crazy on blog-entry ranking, but when I see my recent entry currently sitting on Singapore's ping.sg 10th "most popular this year", I do get the feeling that readers and bloggers are curious and they do want to know about the nature and details of Nuffnang pay-out structure. Ok, I admit, the provocative title helps, but this is a valid question - Is Nuffnang ripping us off?

Here are my responses to the readers' comments, as promised.

CK: I have yet to get for the ads as it stops coming after the initial burst... still below $50. I wonder whether you have got paid yet? Also, may I know where you got the 30% figure from? Cheers!

SSL: Hi CK. Many Nuffnang (NN) bloggers are still waiting for ads, and they won't get any if they don't work for their traffic. Yes, I said work. Many still want to believe that NN ads money are "free money"- so why complain and demand this and that, right?

It is not free money, my friend. We are leasing our blog space for ads. So shouldn't we have some right to ask for payment transparency, and question the commission rate that our ads agencies are charging?

To anwer your question, I haven't cashed out on my ads money. I should because this is "stagnant money", our funds are collecting cob-webs in the NN account and not interest! It doesn't pay for us to keep money with them, NN is likely to earn compounded interest from our funds held with them of which we are not entitled to. The $/RM1.00 charge for withdrawing money deters bloggers from withdrawing "too soon" - that's a hefty 2% charge of the minimum $/RM50 cash-out money! I personally think the "admin fee" or whatever they want to call it is unnecessary and should be abolished, but NN sympathisers may disagree. My advice is this, cash out when you hit the minimum because keeping the money in your savings account will return you more (more than 2% per annum)!

The 30% figure was taken from NST-Tim interview. And this is a typical percentage cut Nuffnang gets for their service, I suspect the actual range is between 30 to 50%. I am also guessing because Nuffnang is not telling.


pinksterz: i have no comment about the 30/70 issue but i do realise that the popular bloggers get extra advantage from nuffnang with advertorial and stuff la but not complaining on that also. but i do agree on the havoc created by innit. too many flamings and bloggers disliking each other in there. haih, i never seen anything like that in pps. haha!

SSL: INNIT encourages people to compete for blog-entry rankings - which only means generating more traffic for NN. So all those "havoc and flamings" on INNIT will play into the hands (and pockets) of NN. And I always say to my fellow NN friends, INNIT is NN's smartest creation to date.

Yes, this is a partnership concept between NN and bloggers: NN scratch our back, we scrub theirs.


Jayelle: It is common knowledge that blog wars bring hefty traffic. As immoral as it is, it brings you monetary benefits (paltry, as you mentioned) and as well as Nuffnang.

However, I don't see why you're grumbling about the 70% shared by thousands of sacrificial lambs.

You make it sound like using your blog to put up one 200x400 javascript advertisement takes a lot of effort from you. The people at Nuffnang are the ones who work many hours a day to include all of us in their network. We are just bloggers who choose to blog what we want. The ads are just a square box at the side that generates some pocket money for us, big or small.

SSL: You are absolutely right, NN work many hours a day. But you left out something, the biggest component in NN's business machinery: the bloggers' collective hours. We bloggers put in the hours too!

Yes, putting up ads on blogs does not take a lot of effort, but pulling in the traffic does. No traffic means no money, remember?

3POINT8: Blogger union? Is that even necessary? I mean, I do know of groups of bloggers who are good friends to each other. Well, even if there is a blog union, i'm sure there are people out there to support it

SSL: It won't be easy to form a cohesive group among bloggers, unless we have a very specific agenda like fighting for freedom of expression in a named country or petitioning for the release of mr so-and-so blogger/prisoner.

Indeed, there is always support for anything, like believing NN has the right to conduct ads payment without explaining the pay-out structure.

Is Nuffnang ripping us off?

Before the days of Nuffnang ads, most Malaysian and Singaporean bloggers pay little to no attention to monetizing their blogs. Popular bloggers had advertorials, but those small-time bloggers had google ads that pay pittance. Consequently, the average bloggers just didn't care too much about making money through their blogs. End of story.

Then came the founders of Nuffnang (their hard-knock, start-up story had been retold so many times on the net, you can simply google for it).

They had this genius idea of empowering bloggers to be a little bit more productive in bringing in the traffic, because for the first time, we are actually getting paid good money (relatively speaking) for allowing them to display locally relevant ads on our blogs. Even bloggers with less than 10 uniques of sympathetic family readers will get some money. So yippee, life is great!

Now Nuffnang is a year older with thousands of willing sacrificial lambs (Nuffnangers as they call us), it is time we ask some probing questions.

Nuffnang take at least 30% of those ad revenues. The other 70% are shared among the thousands of sacrificial lambs. Those Nuffnanger lambs are the sweat and tears of the whole enterprise. Collectively, we work, toil and blog for Nuffnang's traffic. The most popular amongst us get the biggest slice of that 70%, and the mega popular lambs get special treatment and deals from Nuffnang. These deals are sometimes called advertorials or event invites.


Now don't you think 30% commission is a little steep?

Who decides the 30/70 division anyway? 30% sounds like some arbitrary figure. Okay, Nuffnang operates as a pioneering player and a semi-monopoly in the local net advertising agency, therefore they can call the shot -- right?

To be fair, without them, there won't be any money to begin with. They do the marketing. They do the cold calling. They organise promotional events. They roped in famous bloggers to help promote their business. They have staff to hire. They have expensive offices to maintain (their computers, servers and status). These things aren't free.

But still, is this 30% commission justified? I can't think of another business idea that charge such lofty fee, not a unit trust seller, not a car salesman.

If they say this amount is justified, will Nuffnang make their pay structure more transparent so we all can see who's getting what?

The worst case scenario for them would be when bloggers get disgruntled and form a bloggers' ads union. Collectively it won't be difficult to raise some money, hire an IT member among them and start an ad agency from home (no need rent some more!). Each blogger participant gets equitable sum of money according to their site traffic, minus the cost of getting the ads and hiring the IT service. Budget service and maximum profit margin for all!

Thankfully for Nuffnang shareholders, bloggers are such disorganised bunch, so I can't see the bloggers' ads union happening anytime soon. Sometimes I wonder if Nuffnang purposely created NANGS and DANGS so we all can disagree openly and have major blog war among us, and prevent this bloggers' union from ever happening?

(I also wonder if this Dang King was hired by Nuffnang to dis-unite us?)

Don't you love conspiracy? Or is it a conspiracy?

Reference (updated): “We usually take a 30 per cent cut from the advertisement fees. This way everyone is happy,” Tiah says.

No Nuffnang Ads in Thailand

Nuffnang advertised itself as ASIA'S FIRST BLOG ADVERTISING COMPANY, but if you are in Thailand, you won't be able to see any Nuffnang ads (it's geo-specific, I know). It's the same case scenario in Phillipines, HK, Japan, China, Indonesia... because ASIA'S FIRST happened to be SINGAPORE AND MALAYSIA ONLY.

Maybe the Nuffnang business is still in its infancy, because blogging is definitely not small business in Thailand. I wonder if they are thinking of expanding its business into Thailand in the near future? Because Thai bloggers can certainly do with some local ads revenue.

Malaysian Dreamgirl part 3 of many (the final 12)

Once upon a time, in a land, not too far away from my city condo, 12 special ladies were ushered into this palatial shelter where they will receive weeks of intensive training. Wisdom and knowledge of the ancient art of looking pretty in various combination of clothes and poses will be imparted to these eager apprentices.

The host reminded the girls how lucky and bertuah to be the chosen 12. She advised, "now make yourself at home but be mindful at all times, we have a pool. If you use it wisely it will take you places. Now don't look at me like that... hurry up, got chance to wear bikini now. Chop chop."

(The mostly male camera crew could not believe their karma. What have they done to deserve this?)

Some of the apprentices were allowed into the diary room to air their grievances; or sometimes, just to share their views with the camera crew and host. Why this particular pretty padawan wore a bikini and a towel for the interview I also don't know. She look drugged? No0-la.



Master Elaine imparting some tips from the pedestal.

"This is the way of the wise my apprentices...now please stand up and wiggle your hips."

"Now look down at your toes; look for the signs... look"

"Now stand up and arch your back like this.."

But the best (these ones are not made up) Manglish lines came from Episode 3:

Elaine: "Both hands are out like that you know. One hand might be chopped off. So you just might want to angular a bit more, just suck in your tummy.." (Episode 3 part 2; clip 4:00 to 4:12)

Hand (arm) chopped off? What is this?
Hmm...what are the chances if this is an academy for selecting Malaysia's...

Sisua-salute to the Dreamgirl academy.

Glossary:
bertuah - (malay) fortunate
Manglish - mangled English/Malaysian English
Lu kong hamik -"what talk you"

Where will you be on 15th March between 6-10pm?

I hope it's Borneo Baruk Club, Kuala Lumpur.


See you there!

Are you making tons of money from your blog?

KHANG n. job

Blogging is more hobby than anything else. It is tough to make money from blogging in Malaysia and Singapore. Advertising pay peanuts (of course this is better than nothing!) and getting financial sponsors for the average blog is like getting your parent pay for your girlfriend/boyfriend's education (pure charity and luck).

I have embarked on an amateurish, arm-chair research into "blogging as a career". The closest a Malaysian (also a friend) gets to such blogging height is probably Kenny Sia. I have not spoken to him since a month or so ago (and our last conversation concerned some random message sent to his Facebook), but judging from his blog entries, he still needs his day job.

Of course, some might argue, this is his family business and it is paying him well, but I am also sure that if blogging offers very serious money here in Malaysia or Singapore, I think I can make a pretty good guess which side of the boat he would prefer to be on. Some may also say that Kenny gets decent deals (probably better than most people's monthly salary, plus a lot of fun) from his blog fame. Agree, but still, nobody would advise blogging as a full-time jobbie unless a more consistent stream of adequate revenues is identified.

How about our local blogosphere advertising agency, Nuffnang? Can they really help bloggers make serious money from advertisement? Possibly, but not yet.

You wouldn't be far wrong if you think that the money generated from Nuffnang ads for most bloggers pretty much serve as an ego-massager (and Sisuahlai is guilty of this!), and it ends as that. By ego massager, I meant bloggers can now claim (usually to parents and non-internet savvy people) that they can now make money from blogging. Technically, such claims are right, as RM0.10 per month for ads is also considered making money.

At best, for blogs that generate crazy amount of hits per day, the money earned from Nuffnang or from any other similar enterprises, can be considered as off-setting allowances. What is that? Well, just like is says on the tin, the money made is probably just about enough to off-set the expense and effort put into hours of blogging, and not much more.

Monetizing your blog is indeed very challenging. Most bloggers don't really see the point of making money from blogs, they blog because they love making friends through such medium, or the very least they enjoy sharing their writings and experiences with others. But for those who contemplate making serious money from blogging, the best time is probably to start now. Meanwhile, please keep the day job.

Why blogging will become bigger one day...

Microsoft predicts income revenue from ads to double in 2-3 years. Hence the recent unsolicited bid to buy over Yahoo!inc for a generous USD$44.6 billion!

Blogosphere is still largely an under-recognised medium for advertisements. Companies (especially Asian companies) are more willing to pay exorbitant fees for magazine advertising rather than popular blog advertising. This will change.

Blogging is the one of the most creative writing avenues around. Soon, you will see people paying good money for blogging consultation and big companies won't be able to ignore this. People will pay (have already paid) seasoned bloggers to speak in their academias and even in corporate meets.

And of course, we bloggers are mostly a shameless bunch. We parade ourselves on our sites and we don't give much thought about circulating our names/brands in any media opportunity. And nothing is more powerful than a group of kids (or adults who think like one) who believe in their own work... (like the story of Hush Puppies as told in the book Tipping Point).

So I urge you all to pick up a keyboard and blog! It's about time people take us more seriously. And we can all turn this hobby into a real pursuit of wealth and notoriety.

From the satan called SSL.

p/s I've recently acquired the domain name sisuahlai.com. I will share some of the pain (and joy of course) of building a blog on sisuahlai.com. Just like a reality series on blogging... more of less. :)